What I'd like to see in 4E
(By the time I’ve written this, half of it is probably already wrong, so read it with the idea that I’m just hoping how things will be.)
As I think back on all of the D&D I’ve played, I can think of a lot of good that came out of the game, but I can also remember the rules arguments.
There never seems to be a happy medium with rules and D&D. It attracts both casual players and rules lawyers. I’ve varied between the two extremes in my days, but for the most part I’ve had a good time.
Too few rules = arguments at the table over the tiniest things.
I once had a mild argument on whether the 2E Identify spell meant you lost the 100gp pearl. I didn’t win the argument, but 3E proved me right.
Too many rules = Magic: the Gathering’s complex rules and confusion. I hate having to look up any of the combat options whenever someone wants to use them. If you want a true rules mess, go play the original Star Fleet Battles.
The only solution to the whole thing is simple, clear, and comprehensive rules. But face it, you can really only get two of those.
I personally would go for simple and clear rules as my two picks. I can wing the comprehensive part by making things up on the fly.
With that in mind we travel to the land of what I’d like to see in the new edition.
I will randomly travel through the SRD to find some things that grab my attention and need talking about.
Age:
I have some trouble seeing those who live shorter life spans gaining wisdom, intelligence, and charisma at a faster rate. I would think that an elf that has lived to be 600 years old will be wiser, smarter, and friendlier than a human who is lucky to make it 100 years old. And I don’t want to hear the excuse that humans learn quicker. If elves truly learn at one sixth the rate humans did, then that would make for some truly stupid elves. And besides, how many campaigns have you had where a PC died of old age?
Races:
I’ve heard that gnome is not going to be in the first set of core books. Good. I’ve never played a gnome as a PC, and I don’t even think I’ve run one as a DM. A waste of space he was to me. And whisper gnomes need to die a silent death. EL +0 indeed…please.
Dwarves need to be taken down a tiny peg in power.
Half-elves need a tiny boost in power.
All of the other PHB races are fine in my eyes.
Traps:
I’ve read the section of traps in the SRD several times, and each time it strikes me that whole section needs to be dealt with better. Spending thousands of gold pieces on a CR3 trap is excessive. Yeah the costs are more in line with their effects, but not with the complication of the trap. 1600gp just to dig a 20’ hole in the ground and then to put some rusty nails at the bottom and cover it with branches or a cheap rug just seems off.
But then again maybe the thieves’ guild is using union labor.
Alchemical Items:
Some of these things just have to go.
Tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, and sunrods – kiss them goodbye.
Alchemical capsules from the Complete Adventurer (I think) were just plain silly.
Feat - Power Attack:
There was a time that if you sucked at math you played a fighter. Not with 3E, and definitely not when using the Power Attack feat. Add in magic buffs, circumstantial bonuses, two-handed strength bonuses, and so on and you have yourself a 1 minute’s worth of time doing basic math for a single sword swing. And if you’re like me and you want to put your power attacks to optimal use, you’ll need a chart to determine things (yes, I made one, and it took a long time to get it right).
I shudder at the thought of some people taking their turns where they add in all their hit and damage bonuses, then have to do it again next round because the situations changed.
Part of it can be solved by modifying the magic system, but I think Power Attack needs to be replaced with a level damage bonus without reducing your “to hit” bonus.
Initiative:
I kind of like it the way it is. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty good.
I heard something about them adding weapon speeds. That sounds good to me so long as it’s only really dealt with just once, at the beginning of combat (like using a dagger adds 2 to your init, while swinging that greatsword gives you a big negative 8).
Attacks of Opportunity:
AoO’s are one of those hornet’s nest rules.
They certainly need simplification, and during combat much is slowed down for everyone as the acting player has to figure out exactly where to move while avoiding giving out free attacks.
So for the sake of combat speed, I’m in favor of reducing one thing that provokes an AoO – leaving a threatened square when moving your standard speed (not a run or a double move).
Sure it could cause some other issues, possibly exploitable ones, but this one change could increase combat speed greatly. And it cuts down the 5’ step dance you tend to see in combats.
Death:
A PC or monster shouldn’t necessarily die at -10 hit points.
I’m thinking double their level or hit dice.
Do not make it constitution dependent. You get that bonus once already in the positives each time you level.
Cover:
Getting cover from this and cover from that is too much to deal with.
The way the rules are set up, a huge creature in melee only receives the +4 AC melee cover in the squares that are being threatened. So you could effectively shoot the monster’s ass easier because it’s not jiggling as much.
This is one time where the D&D minis game has it about right. You only get cover once and it doesn’t matter what square is being shot at.
Just pick your target, see if it has cover, then give it a cover AC bonus.
Turning and Rebuking Undead:
Just change them into divine spells that heal, injure, or effect undead in some straight forward manner. Turning has been awkward for a long time. 3E did ok, but it really wasn’t all that much of an improvement.
Equipment (mundane):
With a few exceptions, I like the current setup of arms, armor, and other non-magical things that go into your backpack.
Spiked chain needs a revamp, but dealing with my above AoO idea gets rid of its biggest abuse.
Masterwork Weapons:
Masterwork weapons shouldn’t give a +1 to hit because giving a hit bonus makes enchanting the weapon to +1 not that much of an improvement.
Instead a masterwork weapon should increase weapon speed because it is better balanced and resist sundering a bit better because it’s more sturdily made.
And on that note, I don’t necessarily think that magic items must be of masterwork design. So perhaps the masterwork descriptor should be separate from the magic descriptor.
It’s just an idea, but I kind of like the thought of an old gnarly club being slow but still magical or a gleaming polished sword of the highest quality but still bounces off a dragon’s scales because it hasn’t been enchanted.
Magic Items:
I pretty much like magic items as treasure the way they are now, but I would encourage DM’s out there create their own unique magic items instead of always using the same ones over and over again and to sneak in a few more cursed items. (You just don’t see many cursed items anymore.)
But creating magic items is flawed in my eyes.
You have to spend a feat, spend gold, and then dump some of your own XP. If you’re not creating the item for yourself, then that really sucks
I think the feat requirement should be dumped in favor of having a minimum level (slightly higher than in 3E) and of course, XP and the spells needed.
Skills – Craft:
It’s no secret that this skill needs a fix to make it a bit more realistic for times involved to create things (like masterwork full plate armor).
But I think just adjusting times and DC’s would go far towards fixing it.
Skills – Diplomacy:
Depending on how your DM uses this skill, it is totally open for abuse.
I think some big clarifications on what this skill can accomplish are long overdue.
Either reevaluate the DC’s required, or narrow the scope of the skill to specific instances where role-playing is not directly involved.
(Otherwise I’m pretty happy with skills.)
Class – Bard:
This class has to go. (Yay, it’s gone)
Its abilities complicate an already too complicated game.
I would think this class would be better off having been powered up and turned into a prestige class.
Class – Druid:
This class is a 3E paperwork/prep nightmare. If you’re using the PHB2 alternate version then you’ve cut out about half of the problem.
I think getting rid of spontaneous monster summoning in return for something else (more hp, AC bonus, more skills, etc.) would save a lot of trouble.
Class – Monk:
This class needs a retooling.
They can deal large amounts of damage, but can’t take it.
They have all kinds of abilities that usually require some special rules to deal with.
They get plenty of attacks, but don’t hit often enough or do enough damage to stay on the same level of other melee type classes.
I’ve heard that this class won’t make it through the initial 4E cut, and I’m fine with that.
Prestige Classes and Multiclassing:
Due to the excessive amount of min/maxing I’ve seen when using prestige classes to best optimize a PC, I would almost to see a return to the old style multiclassing, albeit with some fair nerfing.
I really don’t expect to see it happening, but hey it’s my blog and my thoughts.
Fear, Nausea, etc.:
Fear needs to be streamlined and simplified. As do things like nausea, sickened, other conditions that all do the same thing with more severe effects.
I would think a list of “fear levels” would work. Fear level 1 means you’re -1 to all rolls and with fear level 5 you drop everything you have and run away from the haunted house, just like Bobby-Sue in Evil Dead 2.
Spell Resistance:
I want to make this simple – stop making spells that get around spell resistance.
What’s the point of having spell resistance or spell immunity in the first place if you have spells that ignore that?
You get Melf’s Acid Arrow and nothing else. Got it?
Wizards and sorcerers should be the iron golem’s bitch, not the other way around.
Feats:
This one people won’t go for.
I would like to see feats taken away and replace by class options or a new standard gain for the class in a manner similar to how the ranger gets to pick between two-weapon fighting and ranged attack specialization or a barbarian gets damage resistance.
Monsters:
One thing I hate about the new stat blocks is that you can’t figure out where some of the information came from. Where before it would list hit dice and hit points, it now just shows hit points. That needs to be reverted back to how it was. Then upping the power of monsters should be easier than just giving it more hp and damage.
Spells:
From what I’ve heard, the whole Vancian magic system is gone in 4E (memorizing individual spells), and has been replaced by spells that can increase in power depending on the spell slot level being used up. I don’t quite understand it exactly (hey I could be way off here), so I’m guessing that a spell like Magic Missile can be used in multiple spell slots with higher slots doing more damage or better effects like quickened. (As a result I guess the sorcerer and wizard classes are going to be combined into one class.)
I’m definitely hoping that all the magical bonuses are changed to only two types, divine and arcane and a plethora of bonuses like dodge, luck, morale, enhancement, deflection, resistance, sacred, profane, and so on.
Seeing Bless as the same spell as cast when level 1 and level 20, but with a more powerful effect would be nice. Prayer would no longer be needed, and all the bonuses would be listed as divine bonuses.
Chances are if I didn’t mention something, I either missed it or I like it the way it is.
Bust just in case…
I like how psionics has been kept as a form of magic for those of us who don’t want to use it.
I like the CR/EL system, but understand it needs some revamping.
I like being able to class certain monsters to make them tougher and unpredictable. I would like to make it easier to do that and be able to add classes to any monsters to make them scale just as well as a human. I would like to be able to add some fighter levels to an ancient dragon, not just leave them with sorcerer levels guaranteed.
I like the fighter, barbarian, rogue, and ranger classes as they are.
I like the rust monster as is.
And plenty more.
As I think back on all of the D&D I’ve played, I can think of a lot of good that came out of the game, but I can also remember the rules arguments.
There never seems to be a happy medium with rules and D&D. It attracts both casual players and rules lawyers. I’ve varied between the two extremes in my days, but for the most part I’ve had a good time.
Too few rules = arguments at the table over the tiniest things.
I once had a mild argument on whether the 2E Identify spell meant you lost the 100gp pearl. I didn’t win the argument, but 3E proved me right.
Too many rules = Magic: the Gathering’s complex rules and confusion. I hate having to look up any of the combat options whenever someone wants to use them. If you want a true rules mess, go play the original Star Fleet Battles.
The only solution to the whole thing is simple, clear, and comprehensive rules. But face it, you can really only get two of those.
I personally would go for simple and clear rules as my two picks. I can wing the comprehensive part by making things up on the fly.
With that in mind we travel to the land of what I’d like to see in the new edition.
I will randomly travel through the SRD to find some things that grab my attention and need talking about.
Age:
I have some trouble seeing those who live shorter life spans gaining wisdom, intelligence, and charisma at a faster rate. I would think that an elf that has lived to be 600 years old will be wiser, smarter, and friendlier than a human who is lucky to make it 100 years old. And I don’t want to hear the excuse that humans learn quicker. If elves truly learn at one sixth the rate humans did, then that would make for some truly stupid elves. And besides, how many campaigns have you had where a PC died of old age?
Races:
I’ve heard that gnome is not going to be in the first set of core books. Good. I’ve never played a gnome as a PC, and I don’t even think I’ve run one as a DM. A waste of space he was to me. And whisper gnomes need to die a silent death. EL +0 indeed…please.
Dwarves need to be taken down a tiny peg in power.
Half-elves need a tiny boost in power.
All of the other PHB races are fine in my eyes.
Traps:
I’ve read the section of traps in the SRD several times, and each time it strikes me that whole section needs to be dealt with better. Spending thousands of gold pieces on a CR3 trap is excessive. Yeah the costs are more in line with their effects, but not with the complication of the trap. 1600gp just to dig a 20’ hole in the ground and then to put some rusty nails at the bottom and cover it with branches or a cheap rug just seems off.
But then again maybe the thieves’ guild is using union labor.
Alchemical Items:
Some of these things just have to go.
Tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, and sunrods – kiss them goodbye.
Alchemical capsules from the Complete Adventurer (I think) were just plain silly.
Feat - Power Attack:
There was a time that if you sucked at math you played a fighter. Not with 3E, and definitely not when using the Power Attack feat. Add in magic buffs, circumstantial bonuses, two-handed strength bonuses, and so on and you have yourself a 1 minute’s worth of time doing basic math for a single sword swing. And if you’re like me and you want to put your power attacks to optimal use, you’ll need a chart to determine things (yes, I made one, and it took a long time to get it right).
I shudder at the thought of some people taking their turns where they add in all their hit and damage bonuses, then have to do it again next round because the situations changed.
Part of it can be solved by modifying the magic system, but I think Power Attack needs to be replaced with a level damage bonus without reducing your “to hit” bonus.
Initiative:
I kind of like it the way it is. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty good.
I heard something about them adding weapon speeds. That sounds good to me so long as it’s only really dealt with just once, at the beginning of combat (like using a dagger adds 2 to your init, while swinging that greatsword gives you a big negative 8).
Attacks of Opportunity:
AoO’s are one of those hornet’s nest rules.
They certainly need simplification, and during combat much is slowed down for everyone as the acting player has to figure out exactly where to move while avoiding giving out free attacks.
So for the sake of combat speed, I’m in favor of reducing one thing that provokes an AoO – leaving a threatened square when moving your standard speed (not a run or a double move).
Sure it could cause some other issues, possibly exploitable ones, but this one change could increase combat speed greatly. And it cuts down the 5’ step dance you tend to see in combats.
Death:
A PC or monster shouldn’t necessarily die at -10 hit points.
I’m thinking double their level or hit dice.
Do not make it constitution dependent. You get that bonus once already in the positives each time you level.
Cover:
Getting cover from this and cover from that is too much to deal with.
The way the rules are set up, a huge creature in melee only receives the +4 AC melee cover in the squares that are being threatened. So you could effectively shoot the monster’s ass easier because it’s not jiggling as much.
This is one time where the D&D minis game has it about right. You only get cover once and it doesn’t matter what square is being shot at.
Just pick your target, see if it has cover, then give it a cover AC bonus.
Turning and Rebuking Undead:
Just change them into divine spells that heal, injure, or effect undead in some straight forward manner. Turning has been awkward for a long time. 3E did ok, but it really wasn’t all that much of an improvement.
Equipment (mundane):
With a few exceptions, I like the current setup of arms, armor, and other non-magical things that go into your backpack.
Spiked chain needs a revamp, but dealing with my above AoO idea gets rid of its biggest abuse.
Masterwork Weapons:
Masterwork weapons shouldn’t give a +1 to hit because giving a hit bonus makes enchanting the weapon to +1 not that much of an improvement.
Instead a masterwork weapon should increase weapon speed because it is better balanced and resist sundering a bit better because it’s more sturdily made.
And on that note, I don’t necessarily think that magic items must be of masterwork design. So perhaps the masterwork descriptor should be separate from the magic descriptor.
It’s just an idea, but I kind of like the thought of an old gnarly club being slow but still magical or a gleaming polished sword of the highest quality but still bounces off a dragon’s scales because it hasn’t been enchanted.
Magic Items:
I pretty much like magic items as treasure the way they are now, but I would encourage DM’s out there create their own unique magic items instead of always using the same ones over and over again and to sneak in a few more cursed items. (You just don’t see many cursed items anymore.)
But creating magic items is flawed in my eyes.
You have to spend a feat, spend gold, and then dump some of your own XP. If you’re not creating the item for yourself, then that really sucks
I think the feat requirement should be dumped in favor of having a minimum level (slightly higher than in 3E) and of course, XP and the spells needed.
Skills – Craft:
It’s no secret that this skill needs a fix to make it a bit more realistic for times involved to create things (like masterwork full plate armor).
But I think just adjusting times and DC’s would go far towards fixing it.
Skills – Diplomacy:
Depending on how your DM uses this skill, it is totally open for abuse.
I think some big clarifications on what this skill can accomplish are long overdue.
Either reevaluate the DC’s required, or narrow the scope of the skill to specific instances where role-playing is not directly involved.
(Otherwise I’m pretty happy with skills.)
Class – Bard:
This class has to go. (Yay, it’s gone)
Its abilities complicate an already too complicated game.
I would think this class would be better off having been powered up and turned into a prestige class.
Class – Druid:
This class is a 3E paperwork/prep nightmare. If you’re using the PHB2 alternate version then you’ve cut out about half of the problem.
I think getting rid of spontaneous monster summoning in return for something else (more hp, AC bonus, more skills, etc.) would save a lot of trouble.
Class – Monk:
This class needs a retooling.
They can deal large amounts of damage, but can’t take it.
They have all kinds of abilities that usually require some special rules to deal with.
They get plenty of attacks, but don’t hit often enough or do enough damage to stay on the same level of other melee type classes.
I’ve heard that this class won’t make it through the initial 4E cut, and I’m fine with that.
Prestige Classes and Multiclassing:
Due to the excessive amount of min/maxing I’ve seen when using prestige classes to best optimize a PC, I would almost to see a return to the old style multiclassing, albeit with some fair nerfing.
I really don’t expect to see it happening, but hey it’s my blog and my thoughts.
Fear, Nausea, etc.:
Fear needs to be streamlined and simplified. As do things like nausea, sickened, other conditions that all do the same thing with more severe effects.
I would think a list of “fear levels” would work. Fear level 1 means you’re -1 to all rolls and with fear level 5 you drop everything you have and run away from the haunted house, just like Bobby-Sue in Evil Dead 2.
Spell Resistance:
I want to make this simple – stop making spells that get around spell resistance.
What’s the point of having spell resistance or spell immunity in the first place if you have spells that ignore that?
You get Melf’s Acid Arrow and nothing else. Got it?
Wizards and sorcerers should be the iron golem’s bitch, not the other way around.
Feats:
This one people won’t go for.
I would like to see feats taken away and replace by class options or a new standard gain for the class in a manner similar to how the ranger gets to pick between two-weapon fighting and ranged attack specialization or a barbarian gets damage resistance.
Monsters:
One thing I hate about the new stat blocks is that you can’t figure out where some of the information came from. Where before it would list hit dice and hit points, it now just shows hit points. That needs to be reverted back to how it was. Then upping the power of monsters should be easier than just giving it more hp and damage.
Spells:
From what I’ve heard, the whole Vancian magic system is gone in 4E (memorizing individual spells), and has been replaced by spells that can increase in power depending on the spell slot level being used up. I don’t quite understand it exactly (hey I could be way off here), so I’m guessing that a spell like Magic Missile can be used in multiple spell slots with higher slots doing more damage or better effects like quickened. (As a result I guess the sorcerer and wizard classes are going to be combined into one class.)
I’m definitely hoping that all the magical bonuses are changed to only two types, divine and arcane and a plethora of bonuses like dodge, luck, morale, enhancement, deflection, resistance, sacred, profane, and so on.
Seeing Bless as the same spell as cast when level 1 and level 20, but with a more powerful effect would be nice. Prayer would no longer be needed, and all the bonuses would be listed as divine bonuses.
Chances are if I didn’t mention something, I either missed it or I like it the way it is.
Bust just in case…
I like how psionics has been kept as a form of magic for those of us who don’t want to use it.
I like the CR/EL system, but understand it needs some revamping.
I like being able to class certain monsters to make them tougher and unpredictable. I would like to make it easier to do that and be able to add classes to any monsters to make them scale just as well as a human. I would like to be able to add some fighter levels to an ancient dragon, not just leave them with sorcerer levels guaranteed.
I like the fighter, barbarian, rogue, and ranger classes as they are.
I like the rust monster as is.
And plenty more.
posted by BlueBlackRed at 6:27 PM
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