The Valley #2
Combat speed has increased dramatically these past couple of sessions.
This session even had 4 combat encounters and a skill challenge.
There is no one thing that I can attribute this to, but there are several things I believe that help; the players are honoring my request to avoid powers that kill the flow of combat or are giant time sinks, no fighter classes, many minions, letting other players play their own class, and the usual DM being prepared.
Just thinking about dragonborns makes me cringe with their combat-stalling breath attack.
If this speed can be maintained past level 5, I’ll consider my changes to the game for this campaign a victory against those who made 4E into a role-playing version of D&D Minis.
Last session both Kergan and Admon made it to level 2 (barely) after only one session. Dale was already level 2 due to back-story (but at 0XP to start with).
Knowing the gaming community how I know the gaming community, several people are going to say things like “You’ve given out way too much XP!”, or “You’re obviously a Monty Haul GM!”, or “This is yet more of proof of how poorly designed 4E is!”
Once again I’d like to say “Shut the smurf up.”
When’s the last time you had a game where people went from level 1 to the teen levels?
(Just one for me)
How many campaigns have you played where people made it past level 6 in less than 6 months?
(Hundreds for me)
Have you ever seen me just give things to the players without good reason?
(Never)
I made the players earn that XP, through combat, role-playing, and choosing the right skills.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again; I don’t care if the PC’s gain a level a session, but I guarantee that every bit of that XP will be earned.
Of course what constitutes “earning XP” could be debated.
Several blog entries back I mentioned that anyone who makes a substandard PC is “stealing XP” from everyone else who made a decent PC. I was called to task by this blog that this is just another example of MMO games influencing D&D, as this is a common ideal in MMO games – when one player is slacking so everyone else has to work harder to get anywhere, or even to not die.
The difference in MMO’s is that it’s a hell of lot easier to boot said slacker and replace them.
(That reminds that I need to update the links on this blog.)
My reasoning for the “stealing XP” comment is from my experience in that some people will choose to make a poor excuse for a PC or my personal favorite from 3E, making a PC that is crap until he hits a certain level at which point he “matures” and can then contribute to group. Some people might call that an “investment”, I call it theft of XP and gaming time.
One positive thing about 4E (so far) is that it’s kind of hard to make a totally pathetic PC, but it is quite possible to make time-wasting PC.
But hey, you all let me know your thoughts.
Now let’s talk about The Valley, Session 2.
Our cast:
Admon (Scott); level 2 human war wizard
Ander (Dale); level 2 halfling storm sorcerer
Duncan (Justin); level 1 Silverhome dwarven cleric of Moradin
Edward (Aaron); level 1 human paladin of Brekaneth
Kergan (Mike); level 2 Silverhome dwarven rogue
We started the morning after last session, with the group being led into Mayor Xavius Ryan’s office by his clerk Lita.
The mayor greeted them all with enthusiasm, asked them how they were doing and other such pleasantries that politicians are all but required to do.
Duncan brought the mayor some Endarian Noble-wine, claiming that it was from his collection. It was totally untrue, but no one knew. And hey, if a 10gp bottle of wine helps your rise to power, it’s a small price.
It didn’t take long for the conversation to head to what special task he had for them.
Rushgar Hammersmith had asked the city council for help with the remnants of the Dead Dwarf Clan of goblins.
The dwarves had removed the goblins from Silverhome, but the goblins still raided occasionally. Recently the goblins had gone from a minor nuisance to an outright guerilla force that did hit-and-fade attacks on dwarven mining squads.
The city council denied the request for both money concerns and that since this occurring entirely underground; it would take too long to properly train non-dwarves to be competent.
So the mayor took it upon himself to take some money from his small discretionary fund to offer the party 5gp each to help Rushgar deal with the goblins. Of course the party accepted the task, and Duncan and Kergan declined any payment.
After the meeting was over Kergan asked to speak to him privately and the mayor asked to speak to Duncan privately.
Kergan offered his services to the mayor for any tasks that can’t be done through the more legal channels.
Xavius thanked him for his offer and requested that the next time that the guild had an internal dispute that they keep it out of the eyes of the public (see last session).
When that was finished the mayor privately talked with Duncan.
Xavius said that he saw some resemblances between the two of them (my actual words were “I see some of myself in you” – but you can imagine how that went over).
Mayor Ryan had another task for Duncan; to find a sample of fresh Zombie Elixir, and the formula for making it.
His logic – if that stuff made it into the drinking water then it would be disaster. But if he could get the formula to the proper people, then preventative measures could be taken to safeguard the city.
The only sticking point was that Duncan needed to do it discreetly, even from the rest of the group.
Of course Duncan agreed to help. If everyone knew about the stuff, the public panic could be uncontrollable.
By noon that day the entire party was within the main halls of Silverhome.
Compared to the scarred and strip-mined area that is the Ironmonger mines, Silverhome has become an icon of dwarven art and pride in their work.
There is artwork in the stone combines the stone’s natural colors mixed with silver for amazing grades of detail.
The artwork in the main hall shows the history of Silverhome from the first finding of the ore, through the creation of the Valley, the destruction of Silverhome, and finally the reclaiming of it.
They also meet Rushgar Hammersmith and the Hammer of Silverhome, a talking hammer (which has some prejudices against elves).
Rushgar tells them that this is a mission to exterminate the Dead Dwarf Clan once and for all and has the commander of the campaign, Kraven Thunderfist, explain the plans.
Over the next several days they’re looking to scout out where the central location of the goblin clan, then pen the goblins in, and corral them into one final fight where no goblins will come out alive.
The party, and several all-dwarf parties, start off simply scouting areas, then move on to actively pursuing goblins, lying traps and ambushes, and so on.
By the third day they notice more aggression from the goblins, possibly out of desperation.
Game-wise we do not run any of those fights. We instead fast forward to the fourth day.
They find that the goblins’ central home was an ancient temple to Moradin that the goblins had converted to a fortress.
To make it worse, the front gates could not be opened unless two sets puzzles were solved. Of course each puzzle area was protected.
The party’s job was to solve one of the puzzles while another force of dwarves did the same on the second “lock”, and a third force would directly assault the front gate to occupy the attentions of the goblins. When the gate was open the fourth and final group would charge into the temple and leave no goblin standing with everyone else becoming reserves, while the 2 lock groups would wait in reserve.
Encounter #1: Storming the East Wing
The party is forced to climb up a hill full of loose rocks (DC 25 athletics) or to travel along a series of switch-back trails while goblin archers shoot at them and melee goblins and terrain impede their travel.
This fight quickly turns in a ranged vs. ranged fight, as expected.
Edward leads the charge up the hill while the rest of the group picks off any goblins in the way, hopefully before Edward gets there.
Ander makes himself a target by taking out several goblins early, so both archers take him out by round 2. He almost stays down after he’s healed.
When they’re within range of the top, Ander uses Sorcerer’s Sirocco to fly Edward up the last bit of the hill. By then the only goblin remaining is an archer, and he surrenders immediately.
Encounter #2: Solving the Lock
At the top of the hill, behind the parapets the goblin archers hid behind is a diamond-shaped, octagonal stone with eight puzzles, one on each side.
We remain on the same initiative as before and this encounter begins at the end of the last one.
As a standard action a PC can try to figure out the puzzle of that side with a DC16 skill check depending on the side being faced (Arcana, History, Perception, and Religion – 2 of each) or a Thievery check could get any of them.
If a PC fails, they get a cumulative +1 per round for the next attempt, but it goes away if they leave that spot. Also, due to the small work area, aiding another PC does not help.
From the beginning of this encounter the party has 5 rounds to solve all 8 sides. If they do so, they get 625XP. If not, for each round after the fifth, the reward drops by 125XP (so 0XP by then tenth round).
Unfortunately, with the exception of Edward, it took everyone 3 rounds to make it to the platform. The party solves it on round 6.
The door opens and the party pulls on the wheel that opens their bit of the gate.
While some of the party listens to the combat raging through the facility (and hearing something about a witch doctor), the rest tend to the captured goblin for interrogation.
The goblin realizes that he’ll die no matter what so he picks on the Ander, who fries him in response.
Kergan: “Now you’re learning.”
While waiting in reserve, the party gets a short rest.
First the dwarven reserves are called in, but the goblins quickly intercept them, leaving only the party to take advantage of a chance to get at Grizshnak, the lead goblin. Kraven Thunderfist orders them to do so.
Encounter #3: The Throne Room
With this combat I felt that there should be utter chaos in the room, so I included a handful of glass beads that counted as combatants that were effectively semi-mobile walls. They were neither friend nor foe, they offered no flanking, took no attacks of opportunity, and were unaffected by powers. Every couple of rounds I’d pick a couple at random to move in a random direction 1 square, except for a few at the back of the room that blocked a rear escape for Grizshnak.
At the back of the room were 4 of the beads, at the end of every other round one of them would move out of the way. So by the end of round 6, Grizshnak would have an escape route. I did not tell the party this, but it didn’t matter.
Even though Grizshnak and his bodyguard were tough, they had no chance against the number of daily powers thrown at them.
The poor bodyguard (I named him Skankmasta 5000 to mess with Aaron who had to write that down on the initiative tracker and then say it every round) had the daylights beaten out of him. At one point he was blinded, poisoned, weakened, had -4 to attacks (not counting blinded), and was next to a Flaming Sphere and a Guardian of Faith.
When their leader died the rest of the goblins fell quickly.
Soon there were cheers of celebration and success ringing throughout the place.
Several odd bits of stolen loot were found, including a full crate of recently stolen black-bottle whiskey.
When the party were each offered bottles to join in toasts of celebration.
Foolish players; never trust a DM.
Encounter #4: The Fallen Rise
After the first toast everyone downed some of the whiskey, whiskey tainted with the Zombie Elixir.
Immediately everyone was doubled over in pain. Because they voluntarily drank it, the poison automatically hit and the damage was 5 points of poison damage a round, slowed, lose 1 healing surge a round, and weakened (save ends all). Oh yeah, since it was based in alcohol, dwarves don’t get their +5 to poison saves.
All my evil DM nastiness went to waste as everyone made their saves on the first round. But there was more going on.
From above more of the glowing elixir was pouring down the walls and flowing down the every so slightly slanted room (something I did mention to the party early on). All of the fallen dwarves and goblins rose as zombie rotters, and several dwarves succumbed to the poison becoming zombies themselves.
But once again my evil DM nastiness was thwarted.
The party was surrounded by zombies, as were the rest of the dwarves throughout the complex. But Admon rolled a 27 on initiative and was able to fry all but 3 of the zombie rotters and miraculously missed all of his allies with his Burning Hands spell. He then uses and action point to take out 2 of the 3 remaining rotters. Then Duncan turned undead and the fight was pretty much over.
During the whole of the 2 round battle everyone heard maniacal laughing coming from above.
Kraven told the party to get up there and stop whoever is causing this before it’s too late, as each dead zombie may re-rise, and each dead dwarf will re-rise.
The party rushes up stairs, not getting a chance to rest for the fifth combat.
Encounter #5: Growven, the Dark One
The party bursts open to the door to find several skeletal archers aiming at them, a pair of skeletons guarding and blocking the doorway, and Growven standing in a large “green room” with plants everywhere emitting the eerie green light that the goblin elixir has.
Growven, a pale-skinned goblin with black veins and an evil grin says, “Welcome to my playground.”
Apparently the party had used all of their karma in the previous encounters of the night because they started missing left and right giving me a lot of chances for Growven and his skeletal archers to freely attack the party.
Even though they do only 3 points of damage, when you get hit by 2-4 decrepit skeletons’ ranged attacks a round, it adds up fast.
Eventually the skeleton guards up front were taken out, then the rest of the skeletons and other aid Growven summoned were destroyed. That only left Growven and a vine horror he had held in reserve.
The party was drained of resources everywhere. They no healing, no encounter powers, no daily powers, and no magic item powers left but the party still won.
And when I say “won”, I mean with single digit hit points and a fear every round that the DM will crush them.
It was late so we fast-forwarded the ceremonies where Rushgar gives the PC’s each a medal (Star of Silverhome) and they return to the city after a stop at Crater Lake so Ander can get a sample of Mage-wort.
Among the loot gained, written in goblin was the formula for the Zombie Elixir. In the group, only Duncan can read the language. He pocketed it for his quest.
Quests completed:
Group: Goblin-solving [Level: 1. Reward: 100XP. Assist Silverhome in exterminating the Dead Dwarf goblin Clan.]
Duncan: Find the Elixir [Level: 2. Reward: 125XP, Holy Symbol of Moradin +2. Find a sample of and the exact recipe for the goblin’s Zombie Elixir.]
Ander: Reagents for Tarn [Level: 2. Reward: 125XP. Bring Sibylline Tarn a seal vial of goblin elixir and 2 mage-wort roots without destroying more than one in the process (DC16 Arcane or Nature)]
Quests added:
None
Next session: we have all but Dale.
This session even had 4 combat encounters and a skill challenge.
There is no one thing that I can attribute this to, but there are several things I believe that help; the players are honoring my request to avoid powers that kill the flow of combat or are giant time sinks, no fighter classes, many minions, letting other players play their own class, and the usual DM being prepared.
Just thinking about dragonborns makes me cringe with their combat-stalling breath attack.
If this speed can be maintained past level 5, I’ll consider my changes to the game for this campaign a victory against those who made 4E into a role-playing version of D&D Minis.
Last session both Kergan and Admon made it to level 2 (barely) after only one session. Dale was already level 2 due to back-story (but at 0XP to start with).
Knowing the gaming community how I know the gaming community, several people are going to say things like “You’ve given out way too much XP!”, or “You’re obviously a Monty Haul GM!”, or “This is yet more of proof of how poorly designed 4E is!”
Once again I’d like to say “Shut the smurf up.”
When’s the last time you had a game where people went from level 1 to the teen levels?
(Just one for me)
How many campaigns have you played where people made it past level 6 in less than 6 months?
(Hundreds for me)
Have you ever seen me just give things to the players without good reason?
(Never)
I made the players earn that XP, through combat, role-playing, and choosing the right skills.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again; I don’t care if the PC’s gain a level a session, but I guarantee that every bit of that XP will be earned.
Of course what constitutes “earning XP” could be debated.
Several blog entries back I mentioned that anyone who makes a substandard PC is “stealing XP” from everyone else who made a decent PC. I was called to task by this blog that this is just another example of MMO games influencing D&D, as this is a common ideal in MMO games – when one player is slacking so everyone else has to work harder to get anywhere, or even to not die.
The difference in MMO’s is that it’s a hell of lot easier to boot said slacker and replace them.
(That reminds that I need to update the links on this blog.)
My reasoning for the “stealing XP” comment is from my experience in that some people will choose to make a poor excuse for a PC or my personal favorite from 3E, making a PC that is crap until he hits a certain level at which point he “matures” and can then contribute to group. Some people might call that an “investment”, I call it theft of XP and gaming time.
One positive thing about 4E (so far) is that it’s kind of hard to make a totally pathetic PC, but it is quite possible to make time-wasting PC.
But hey, you all let me know your thoughts.
Now let’s talk about The Valley, Session 2.
Our cast:
Admon (Scott); level 2 human war wizard
Ander (Dale); level 2 halfling storm sorcerer
Duncan (Justin); level 1 Silverhome dwarven cleric of Moradin
Edward (Aaron); level 1 human paladin of Brekaneth
Kergan (Mike); level 2 Silverhome dwarven rogue
We started the morning after last session, with the group being led into Mayor Xavius Ryan’s office by his clerk Lita.
The mayor greeted them all with enthusiasm, asked them how they were doing and other such pleasantries that politicians are all but required to do.
Duncan brought the mayor some Endarian Noble-wine, claiming that it was from his collection. It was totally untrue, but no one knew. And hey, if a 10gp bottle of wine helps your rise to power, it’s a small price.
It didn’t take long for the conversation to head to what special task he had for them.
Rushgar Hammersmith had asked the city council for help with the remnants of the Dead Dwarf Clan of goblins.
The dwarves had removed the goblins from Silverhome, but the goblins still raided occasionally. Recently the goblins had gone from a minor nuisance to an outright guerilla force that did hit-and-fade attacks on dwarven mining squads.
The city council denied the request for both money concerns and that since this occurring entirely underground; it would take too long to properly train non-dwarves to be competent.
So the mayor took it upon himself to take some money from his small discretionary fund to offer the party 5gp each to help Rushgar deal with the goblins. Of course the party accepted the task, and Duncan and Kergan declined any payment.
After the meeting was over Kergan asked to speak to him privately and the mayor asked to speak to Duncan privately.
Kergan offered his services to the mayor for any tasks that can’t be done through the more legal channels.
Xavius thanked him for his offer and requested that the next time that the guild had an internal dispute that they keep it out of the eyes of the public (see last session).
When that was finished the mayor privately talked with Duncan.
Xavius said that he saw some resemblances between the two of them (my actual words were “I see some of myself in you” – but you can imagine how that went over).
Mayor Ryan had another task for Duncan; to find a sample of fresh Zombie Elixir, and the formula for making it.
His logic – if that stuff made it into the drinking water then it would be disaster. But if he could get the formula to the proper people, then preventative measures could be taken to safeguard the city.
The only sticking point was that Duncan needed to do it discreetly, even from the rest of the group.
Of course Duncan agreed to help. If everyone knew about the stuff, the public panic could be uncontrollable.
By noon that day the entire party was within the main halls of Silverhome.
Compared to the scarred and strip-mined area that is the Ironmonger mines, Silverhome has become an icon of dwarven art and pride in their work.
There is artwork in the stone combines the stone’s natural colors mixed with silver for amazing grades of detail.
The artwork in the main hall shows the history of Silverhome from the first finding of the ore, through the creation of the Valley, the destruction of Silverhome, and finally the reclaiming of it.
They also meet Rushgar Hammersmith and the Hammer of Silverhome, a talking hammer (which has some prejudices against elves).
Rushgar tells them that this is a mission to exterminate the Dead Dwarf Clan once and for all and has the commander of the campaign, Kraven Thunderfist, explain the plans.
Over the next several days they’re looking to scout out where the central location of the goblin clan, then pen the goblins in, and corral them into one final fight where no goblins will come out alive.
The party, and several all-dwarf parties, start off simply scouting areas, then move on to actively pursuing goblins, lying traps and ambushes, and so on.
By the third day they notice more aggression from the goblins, possibly out of desperation.
Game-wise we do not run any of those fights. We instead fast forward to the fourth day.
They find that the goblins’ central home was an ancient temple to Moradin that the goblins had converted to a fortress.
To make it worse, the front gates could not be opened unless two sets puzzles were solved. Of course each puzzle area was protected.
The party’s job was to solve one of the puzzles while another force of dwarves did the same on the second “lock”, and a third force would directly assault the front gate to occupy the attentions of the goblins. When the gate was open the fourth and final group would charge into the temple and leave no goblin standing with everyone else becoming reserves, while the 2 lock groups would wait in reserve.
Encounter #1: Storming the East Wing
The party is forced to climb up a hill full of loose rocks (DC 25 athletics) or to travel along a series of switch-back trails while goblin archers shoot at them and melee goblins and terrain impede their travel.
This fight quickly turns in a ranged vs. ranged fight, as expected.
Edward leads the charge up the hill while the rest of the group picks off any goblins in the way, hopefully before Edward gets there.
Ander makes himself a target by taking out several goblins early, so both archers take him out by round 2. He almost stays down after he’s healed.
When they’re within range of the top, Ander uses Sorcerer’s Sirocco to fly Edward up the last bit of the hill. By then the only goblin remaining is an archer, and he surrenders immediately.
Encounter #2: Solving the Lock
At the top of the hill, behind the parapets the goblin archers hid behind is a diamond-shaped, octagonal stone with eight puzzles, one on each side.
We remain on the same initiative as before and this encounter begins at the end of the last one.
As a standard action a PC can try to figure out the puzzle of that side with a DC16 skill check depending on the side being faced (Arcana, History, Perception, and Religion – 2 of each) or a Thievery check could get any of them.
If a PC fails, they get a cumulative +1 per round for the next attempt, but it goes away if they leave that spot. Also, due to the small work area, aiding another PC does not help.
From the beginning of this encounter the party has 5 rounds to solve all 8 sides. If they do so, they get 625XP. If not, for each round after the fifth, the reward drops by 125XP (so 0XP by then tenth round).
Unfortunately, with the exception of Edward, it took everyone 3 rounds to make it to the platform. The party solves it on round 6.
The door opens and the party pulls on the wheel that opens their bit of the gate.
While some of the party listens to the combat raging through the facility (and hearing something about a witch doctor), the rest tend to the captured goblin for interrogation.
The goblin realizes that he’ll die no matter what so he picks on the Ander, who fries him in response.
Kergan: “Now you’re learning.”
While waiting in reserve, the party gets a short rest.
First the dwarven reserves are called in, but the goblins quickly intercept them, leaving only the party to take advantage of a chance to get at Grizshnak, the lead goblin. Kraven Thunderfist orders them to do so.
Encounter #3: The Throne Room
With this combat I felt that there should be utter chaos in the room, so I included a handful of glass beads that counted as combatants that were effectively semi-mobile walls. They were neither friend nor foe, they offered no flanking, took no attacks of opportunity, and were unaffected by powers. Every couple of rounds I’d pick a couple at random to move in a random direction 1 square, except for a few at the back of the room that blocked a rear escape for Grizshnak.
At the back of the room were 4 of the beads, at the end of every other round one of them would move out of the way. So by the end of round 6, Grizshnak would have an escape route. I did not tell the party this, but it didn’t matter.
Even though Grizshnak and his bodyguard were tough, they had no chance against the number of daily powers thrown at them.
The poor bodyguard (I named him Skankmasta 5000 to mess with Aaron who had to write that down on the initiative tracker and then say it every round) had the daylights beaten out of him. At one point he was blinded, poisoned, weakened, had -4 to attacks (not counting blinded), and was next to a Flaming Sphere and a Guardian of Faith.
When their leader died the rest of the goblins fell quickly.
Soon there were cheers of celebration and success ringing throughout the place.
Several odd bits of stolen loot were found, including a full crate of recently stolen black-bottle whiskey.
When the party were each offered bottles to join in toasts of celebration.
Foolish players; never trust a DM.
Encounter #4: The Fallen Rise
After the first toast everyone downed some of the whiskey, whiskey tainted with the Zombie Elixir.
Immediately everyone was doubled over in pain. Because they voluntarily drank it, the poison automatically hit and the damage was 5 points of poison damage a round, slowed, lose 1 healing surge a round, and weakened (save ends all). Oh yeah, since it was based in alcohol, dwarves don’t get their +5 to poison saves.
All my evil DM nastiness went to waste as everyone made their saves on the first round. But there was more going on.
From above more of the glowing elixir was pouring down the walls and flowing down the every so slightly slanted room (something I did mention to the party early on). All of the fallen dwarves and goblins rose as zombie rotters, and several dwarves succumbed to the poison becoming zombies themselves.
But once again my evil DM nastiness was thwarted.
The party was surrounded by zombies, as were the rest of the dwarves throughout the complex. But Admon rolled a 27 on initiative and was able to fry all but 3 of the zombie rotters and miraculously missed all of his allies with his Burning Hands spell. He then uses and action point to take out 2 of the 3 remaining rotters. Then Duncan turned undead and the fight was pretty much over.
During the whole of the 2 round battle everyone heard maniacal laughing coming from above.
Kraven told the party to get up there and stop whoever is causing this before it’s too late, as each dead zombie may re-rise, and each dead dwarf will re-rise.
The party rushes up stairs, not getting a chance to rest for the fifth combat.
Encounter #5: Growven, the Dark One
The party bursts open to the door to find several skeletal archers aiming at them, a pair of skeletons guarding and blocking the doorway, and Growven standing in a large “green room” with plants everywhere emitting the eerie green light that the goblin elixir has.
Growven, a pale-skinned goblin with black veins and an evil grin says, “Welcome to my playground.”
Apparently the party had used all of their karma in the previous encounters of the night because they started missing left and right giving me a lot of chances for Growven and his skeletal archers to freely attack the party.
Even though they do only 3 points of damage, when you get hit by 2-4 decrepit skeletons’ ranged attacks a round, it adds up fast.
Eventually the skeleton guards up front were taken out, then the rest of the skeletons and other aid Growven summoned were destroyed. That only left Growven and a vine horror he had held in reserve.
The party was drained of resources everywhere. They no healing, no encounter powers, no daily powers, and no magic item powers left but the party still won.
And when I say “won”, I mean with single digit hit points and a fear every round that the DM will crush them.
It was late so we fast-forwarded the ceremonies where Rushgar gives the PC’s each a medal (Star of Silverhome) and they return to the city after a stop at Crater Lake so Ander can get a sample of Mage-wort.
Among the loot gained, written in goblin was the formula for the Zombie Elixir. In the group, only Duncan can read the language. He pocketed it for his quest.
Quests completed:
Group: Goblin-solving [Level: 1. Reward: 100XP. Assist Silverhome in exterminating the Dead Dwarf goblin Clan.]
Duncan: Find the Elixir [Level: 2. Reward: 125XP, Holy Symbol of Moradin +2. Find a sample of and the exact recipe for the goblin’s Zombie Elixir.]
Ander: Reagents for Tarn [Level: 2. Reward: 125XP. Bring Sibylline Tarn a seal vial of goblin elixir and 2 mage-wort roots without destroying more than one in the process (DC16 Arcane or Nature)]
Quests added:
None
Next session: we have all but Dale.
posted by BlueBlackRed at 5:56 AM
11 Comments:
Somebody's gotta ask, right? What's so bad about the dragon breath? Is it people taking too long to line up and catch exactly the right people in the path? I've used dragon breath and it seemed like "bam! Roll damage, roll attack rolls, roll minion corpses off the floor. Done."
I think the main problem with Dragon Breath is it's a minor action. After making a passing attack or some other standard action of moderate complexity you have another 'full' attack. Making it a standard might be the 'fix' if he ever works it back in.
Then there is our group specific problems... Should I do it? Should I hit these guys or these guys? Let me calculate my damage and my attack bonuses again....
If it was wham bam then there wouldn't be an issue.
Aaron hit it right on the head; pathetic damage (1d6+x) and usable every combat with virtually no real cost.
I do definitely appreciate the increased speed of the combats, playing for almost 4 hours and finishing only 2 encounters means we're not doing something right. As has been said before, everyone knowing their powers and having a plan before their turn helps. Not having people offering unrequested advice to others each turn (me being a past guilty party) also has sped things up.
I think limiting class choice hasn't been a bad thing- 3+ characters with marking and multiple zones slows things to a crawl. One bad actor was certainly my bard in Dale's campaign. But I will say that it can be premature to throw out an entire class based on a set of power choices or what in the books is a "theme" or "build"- for example the bard also has plenty of melee abilities that don't interrupt the flow and you could just limit utility powers to those that aren't disruptive. I also understand that the Valley is very specific in what classes fit secondary to flavor, but on the surface I don't see why you couldn't just change the barbarian's name to "shock trooper" or something like that and change the source to martial, - the avenger and Warden (to add another defender) could get the same treatment. adding leaders would be more difficult, I think the warlord may be too far gone in this respect (limiting interruptions).
Til-the-end-of-this/next-turn riders seem to be the hardest to keep from slowing down. Maybe someone could keep track on a board, or if you produce the +/-, you have to write in on the combat map or it doesn't exist- it seems to add another layer of work for the DM when they have to remember all of the penalties applied to an enemy's attack or defense.
One final point- i think with enemy multihit powers on PCs, i think rolling all attacks first, THEN telling us damage/status effects would be faster as honestly i don't change it on my sheet until I know my PC's been hit and then have to ask again. Could just be me though.
To Michael:
You're no less guilty than any others play, whether helpful or not.
As for the bard, he's out and he's staying out.
I can't keep half of a class in. Nor can I say "You can play a bard but you can't use -these powers-" as I unscroll a giant parchment.
That's too much work and really kills the class, so why not use the banhammer?
Changing the name of a class doesn't make it more usable to my vision of the Valley.
Just because we're willing to do some mental gymnastics to get 4E to work doesn't mean I'm willing to do the same for the rest of D&D.
As for the end-of-next-turn modifiers; if I could get rid of them I would. Unfortunately it's too ingrained into the 4E system to dump.
And trust me, I've put some thought into it. Nothing I can come up with helps more than it hurts.
As for multi-hits, I agree with you when it's the DM attacking the players.
When it's a player doing the same thing in a combat, damage roll first and then attack roll is faster.
I like the individual XP awards for personalized quests. It is an interesting way to give the PC's additional goals.
I read another approach this week, a DM had his party split up, and each week for a month every player had a 'personal' adventure that advanced his character. The other players all ran one offs, allies from that particular guild or somesuch. Admittedly, I like your idea better.
As far as game interrupting powers, there are quite a few, but in my experience there are more game interrupting *players*. Folks who do not understand what they can or should do on their turn.
I agree that multi-hit powers and minor action abilities can make this worse, but I really think that blame is more 70/30 towards the players. And the easy fix is to know what you can do, and pay attention so that when your turn comes up you can do it.
I'm liking these posts, keep em up!
Jay
I'm glad you like what you're reading Jay.
The personal XP awards are a derivative of giving XP for role-playing (and not my idea, I just stole it).
It gives hack-and-slashers one hell of an incentive to get involved in the game rather than just show up to be entertained.
They are almost forced to role-play or they're disappointed as all the other players slowly break away from them in level.
As for splitting up the party, we don't have that kind of time. Though in high school it happened regularly.
Interrupting players is no stranger to us. I'm among the more guilty ones in the group, but there have been far worse before.
But we do our best to get as much of it out of our system before we start, plus usually a break somewhere in the middle.
As for players being prepared, we are doing much better now.
There are always factors that slow down the game, so we do our best to mitigate them as best we can.
I too really like the personalized quests for several reasons. You feel much more invested in the session when yours is being played out, but I think also you can enjoy being slightly to the sideline when it's someone else with a quest and you're coming along for support. I for one found plenty of things to do here and there on the wizard PC's mission last week, which i guess should be expected of rogues who always have something to do.
I think now almost 4 sessions into the campaign everyone is learning their PC so that has helped with speeding things up, and also most have zeroed in on a power as their "can't think of anything else to do" power so we're not waiting for 5 minutes.
Not discussing or over discussing if one should use action points and/or dailys is also a big help/improvement. I think you should just make the decision and do it- it makes further party choices and combats more interesting later in the session. But there still are times when stopping and thinking for a few minutes as a group is good and necessary, as in the final fight last week where we had to figure out a few PCs' action sequence in a round where the cleric had been dropped and the wizard was going to have to "heal" him (still not sure if RAI you can help someone use their second wind when they're dying, RAW you can, but maybe we should increase the DC to 15 or so;seems too easy to bring someone back- Sean??)
Nah, having seen how easy it is to go from "just fine" to "we're hosed", RAW for helping someone heal is needed.
Can't think of anything else to do power is right! One thing that irks me is when someone hums and haws for a couple minutes and then does their at will. The one they did last round. For me, Illusory Ambush if I can't immediately spot a place to drop an area attack.
Our last group had some informal rules about only giving combat suggestions in-character, to try and eliminate metagaming comments about specific dailies or AP's. Did you guys make that an honest to goodness rule at your table?
Jay
We don't have any rules, but there's a point where you just have to let someone figure their own PC's out and there are times when you have to say "WTF! Use this power so we don't all die."
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